A SEASON WITH COVER CROPS

Mid June Update

2010-06-14T13:25:00.007-04:00

This is the field that had liquid hog manure injected on the left and just plain stubble on the right. Check last season's posts for the pictures and how big the rye and tillage radishes were. Notice how little residue is left. The leaves of ARG really disintegrate and the oil seed radishes were killed back in December and were really dried up by spring.

This is the worst field planted on May 29th. It had straw manure applied along with liquid pit manure. The slugs damaged this corn bad enough that some replanting will be done.

The hole that you see is from an oil seed radish that was planted last summer after wheat harvest and a manure application. You can also see how much residue is being consumed by earth worms with all the little midden piles around. I ran a Phoenix rotary harrow over it one time to help dry it out. The worms have done this since that pass.

This is the worst I have ever seen slugs. Probably 70% of the corn is coming, but slowly. Most crop consultants say treatment with bait is not very effective. I believe strip till would be the best answer for slug problems. Last fall and this spring just didn't allow enough time to get everything done.

In this pic the corn was planted on May 29th in the field that was wheat last year and inter seeded with medium red clover and alsike clover. This field planted the nicest of the three wheat fields I think partly due to being strip tilled last fall. The clover was sprayed on 4-22 and post sprayed on 6-11.

It's been a month since my last post and its still wet. I did get the corn all planted and the biggest of it side dressed with NH3. I still have some soybeans to finish planting yet. Some of the corn really looks tough. Its just been to wet for to long. Early planting and well drained fields are looking the best. The annual rye grass was hard to kill this year again. When I sprayed most of it on or about April 22nd it turned wet and cold after that and had a very slow kill. In my updated pictures you can see the regrowth that has occurred. For me this isn't surprising because its what I've seen before and plan to make a second pass with my herbicide application. My focus corn fields with the cover crops were planted on 5-29. Conditions were not ideal, but on two of the fields I have a good stand. On the third field I had a slug problem that killed some plants and others that were delayed emergence due to feeding at the growing point. These fields would have been dry enough back in April to plant, but I made the choice to let the cover grow a little longer. Than an early May planting window didn't happen and with the cover dead or dying these fields stayed wetter longer. On the 10th of May I switched to beans during that window. These beans seem to be doing better than the corn planted at that point.

May 14th update

2010-05-14T11:25:00.002-04:00

My first thought is this season isn't going to be as good as last season. It's been wet now for three weeks. Though there was a lot of corn planted in April from the 17th to the 23rd. For the most part stands are OK. There are some wet spots that will need to be replanted.

The timing for my cover crop fields didn't work well with the weather this spring, as they are not planted yet. In early April I did not spray yet because it was cool and I wanted a little more growth. I did spray them on April the 22nd. Than it rained. I had a two day window on May the 9th and 10th, but the ARG fields going to corn weren't quite fit to plant. Partly due to the fact that they had been sprayed and were dying and were not pulling moisture out of the ground.

I did however plant soybeans into cornstalks some bare and some with ARG cover that are in the pictures. The stalks with ARG cover were sprayed on Sunday and planted on Monday the 10th. Conditions were good and hope to get good stands here.

These timing issues are one of the bigger hurdles to overcome with cover crops. In my opinion that's why I don't think a producer can do 100% cover crops and still manage it. Somewhere between a half and one third seems to be my comfort level.

Due to wet conditions last fall I did not get strip till performed in my cover crop fields. If you read my posts last year this is a concept that can open that planting window up a little bit. I was considering doing spring strip till at the 4" depth but that window hasn't presented itself this year. One tractor does everytthing in my operation. So if its planting I'd have to stop to do spring strip till, and I'd rather be planting something whether it's corn or beans.

Focus fields

2010-03-24T11:40:00.004-04:00

This is the latest spring picture of ARG that was flown on the standing corn last summer. I got an except-able stand this time.

It was still a little variable, I think based on either soil type or elevation in the field.

This is the field of medium red clover and alsike clover at mid April and its time to kill it.

In this field that had hog manure injected last summer the ARG really grew and got thick. Come spring when this picture was taken it created a thick mat that seemed to smother out the new growth this spring.

This is what a dried oil seed radish looks like come spring. Last fall the foliage was two feet tall and the bulb was three inches in diameter. It shrivels up to nothing. It definitely left a hole in the ground. If a corn kernel dropped into it, I don't think it would grow.

This is early April as things are starting to green up. On the left side of the picture is where hog manure was injected last summer and the ARG and Radishes had really good growth. On the right side of this picture the growth was lagging last summer mainly because no manure was applied last summer. It was covered with liquid hog manure last winter at 3000 gallon per acre. The early growth was more vigorous due to the manure and less vegetative cover from last summer.

This field was in wheat last year the '09 crop. I seeded annual rye grass and oil seed radishes in early august last year. This picture was taken the first of April at green up. This field had manure applied through the summer of '09 and through the winter of '10. You can see some of the small clumps of straw manure in this picture. In order for no-till to work I spread the manure thin and never later than March when the ground is still frozen. You just can't make wheel tracks in April or later and expect no-till corn to perform.

This picture was taken about mid April and its time to spray roundup to kill it and hopefully in about five days plant this field.

Year ending thoughts

2010-03-24T09:32:00.003-04:00

Sorry for the long delay in updates. We were busy with a house remodel project that was running behind schedule, and at the same time adding to the grain storage facility. Fortunately the beans all were sold and went to town. The construction of a new grain leg and another grain bin was just finished by November 1st. We started putting in corn the next day. So harvest lasted a month longer than normal. Than after cleaning up all the construction mess and normal year end stuff it was Christmas already.
Average yields on the corn and bean crops were the best of my farming career. The corn yield on the field that was land leveled and seeded with annual rye grass cover was 205 bushels per acre. The other field that was showing strip till with the annual rye grass yielded 195 bushels per acre. The field that was showing the strips with cereal rye for cover yielded 181 bushel per acre. For this to make sense you may want to go back and read my previous posts.
Was this profitable when you factor in the extra costs for ARG seed and burn down cost. I will use the field that yielded 195 BPA.
Gross revenue using $3.85 for corn at 195 = $750.75
The machinery charges on this field were $75.00 per acre. This includes charges for lime application and and 3 passes for variable rate fertilizer application. One of these were used to spin on the ARG. Along with the normal planting, spraying, side dress N, and harvest operations.
The input costs seed, fertilizer, chemicals, ARG seed were $384.00 dollars. Leaving $292.00 dollars before land charges.
The one variable that can't be directly assessed is what the effects of long term cover crops do for the soil health. The increased organic matter could lead to using less fertilizer. It could also lead to better and deeper roots on the corn plant itself thus making it better able to withstand dry periods. This could be a key point. If its not higher yields maybe it could be more consistent yields from year to year during weather extremes.
My challenge to anyone thinking about using cover crops would be to pick a field and than commit to putting some type of cover crop on it for four years straight. In a corn and beans rotation this is easy. If wheat is in the rotation the volunteer wheat could be tricky to handle. For those who are going from full width conventional tillage, I would use strip till as an intermediate process for the years that go to corn and no-till the beans. At the end of four years I think you will be amazed at the soil tilth.
I am starting to think in terms of using different blends of cover crops. It seems that the ARG is a little inconsistent with regards to stand establishment and winter hardiness. So maybe putting some cereal rye along with ARG would be better. Or after wheat when you can seed earlier in the summer using a mix of oil seed radishes with ARG. Or using clover frost seeded into wheat in the spring and than add to that some ARG or cereal rye in the summer could achieve a nice mix.
I will start the 2010 season with some pictures of the fields that were seeded to cover crops the previous season. I have 3 fields that ARG was flown on. I have the two manured fields with ARG and oil seed radishes. I have a field of medium red clover and alsike clover following wheat that was strip tilled last fall and will plant corn into those strips.

2009-10-12T09:14:00.000-04:00

2009-10-12T08:33:00.004-04:00

Its the 6th of October when these pics were taken. The oil seed radishes are knee high and the annual rye grass is about a foot tall. Where there was a liquid manure application the color and growth are phenomenal. Even without manure the growth is still good. The area where the straw windrows were laid had some volunteer wheat growing and it kind of slows the growth of ARG.

The standing stubble on the right are just about covered.
I haven't dug for rooting depth yet on the ARG. I thought I would wait till about November.

One surprising thing I see now is that on the oil seed radishes the tubers or roots have 8 to 12 inches in the ground, but also have 4 to 6 inches above ground. If this growth was all below ground that would be tremendous.

There are some seed heads starting to appear. I was told that once this happens the radishes are done growing. They are very scattered and mostly on the manured side. This could affect the seeding date that you are looking at. Radishes like the cooler weather of early fall.Seeding after soybean harvest in northeastern Indiana its probably to late.

This plant has the flower on it.

2009-09-28T07:49:00.006-04:00

This series of updates will focus on what I've done this summer after wheat harvest up until just prior to soybean harvest. This is about manure management and what cover crops can do to scavenge the nutrients from summer applied manure and hold them for next years crop. Also on some aerial seeding of annual rye grass into standing corn crop.

Starting in late July after our wheat harvest I have to empty some of my hog pits due to not having enough storage in them to last until after fall harvest. I also have some dry straw bedding from hogs and cattle.

The liquid swine manure is injected into the soil with a 4 point injector on the tank wagon. This is an old style unit and does a lot of tillage. I need to do a leveling pass after words with the field cultivator to get it seed able again. Wish I had one of the newer low disturbance injectors.

These are the two manure fields for this year. I bale the straw and sometimes clip the stubbles and bale them. That's why the one on the left looks bare. In the field on the left is the line where the injected manure stopped on the left and regular stubble's start on the right. In the right photo I only baled the windrowed straw.

The parts of these fields that did not have manure injected and tillage done were sprayed with roundup to kill some of the volunteer wheat and weeds that were present. COVER CROPS NEED TO BE MANAGED AS WELL AS ANY OTHER CROP IF YOU WANT GOOD RESULTS. This means a weed free start at seeding.

This year instead of using ammonium sulfate (21-0-0-24) fertilizer as a carrier and spinning on the annual rye grass, I opted to no-till it in with a 750 JD drill. Fertilizer is still a little expensive.

I used a mixture of annual rye grass at 20 lbs. per acre and about 3 lbs. per acre of oil seed radishes. I dumped them into the regular grain box and mixed them up by hand. Seeding depth was about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch deep. The seeding chart I used said to use a #10 setting. This ended up being a little heavy because we ran out and had to get two more bags of rye grass. The seeding date was about the 10th of August. There was adequate soil moisture plus a week later we recieved some nice showers.

Here is the result about three weeks later. The oil seed radishes are the wide leafed plants. You can see the pattern from the manure injectors. About every 30 inches there is a dark strip. These pictures don't do it justice but it was incredable how the cover crops use the nutrients from the manure. Next year as the residue decomposes its better than any commercial fertilizer.

Just after Labor day about the 9th I had some annual rye grass flown on two standing corn fields. I would have liked to have done this two weeks earlier as we had some nice showers than. with this process you are at the mercy of an aireal applicator and fungicide applications take preferance than. There are two differant groups that I have used that put this service together. They do one rate (25 lbs. per acre) and move through an area. So you have to wait sometimes. The cost this year was $11.00 per acre for flying and $.67 cents for the seed cost.

The pilot flew a 50 foot pattern and was about 50 feet above the crop. This year they also put some end passes on which should help better the coverage there. I was surprised that some of this was sprouted and growing about 10 days after it was flown on. The weather has been dry, but there has been a lot of due and some fog in the mornings. After harvest we will see if this works better for me this year.

Medium Red & Alsike Clover

2009-09-03T23:28:00.004-04:00

The above pic was about two weeks later. The clover was in full bloom. We mowed this field, to hopefully promote further growth. This stand should provide a considerable amount of nitrogen for next years corn crop. I will strip till this field but leave the clover grow until next spring.

Due to a wheat crop that was on the thin side my spring frost seeding took off really well. The clover in places where the wheat was thin was almost as tall as the wheat.This pic was taken at the first week of August.

Late season pics and comments

2009-09-03T08:23:00.005-04:00

Here is a photo of what not to do when planting corn into strips or no-till. I have a severe dandelion problem. I was aware of it and sprayed this field early in the spring. It took two applications of glyphosate to control them this spring. A fall application of glyphosate or 2-4D product is much more effective. Due to the strips this corn will do OK.

This is an after planting photo of the field that was strip tilled with cereal rye grass used for a cover crop. The cover wasn't perfect over the whole field. This shows the spray timing and the fact that yhe cover crop should be browning by the time the crop emerges.

Post Planting Photo's & Comments

2009-07-12T10:33:00.006-04:00

This is the field of annual rye grass with strip tillage. Pic was taken at planting. This is how the timing should be ideally at planting, with the brown cover.

This close up shows that the annual rye grass is not quite completely killed. This is what will take off and grow and will need the second planned post emerge application.

This pic was taken on July 12th. Nice even stand.

My strip till with cover crop fields planted to corn look as good as any conventionally tilled fields.

We did have some heat and dry weather stress in the first 10 days of July. These fields barley rolled there leaves. In conventionally tilled fields of comparable soil type that wasn't the case, especially if that tillage was performed on the wet side.

This is the field that was chiseled and land planed last summer. The annual rye grass cover mostly didn't survive the winter. I planted it without further tillage. Or what would be stale seed bed.

It took until May the 27th to get started planting. I planted soybeans for one day than started planting corn. Conditions were excellent. Those seven days were the best window for planting this year. Short of a day or two in April if your soil type allowed it. The burn down for my cover crop fields was sprayed on the 20th and 21st of May. Emerged stand counts are running from 30,000 to 32,000 plants per acre on corn and 140,000 to 160,00 plants per acre on soybeans. I drop 32,300 on corn and 180,000 on soybeans.

The cereal rye killed easily as it always does. The annual rye grass looked as though I had a good kill. It was thin and not a lot of growth. In some of the at planting photo's it looks totally dead. In the strip till field with the annual rye grass it all killed the first time. I had an area at the end of the field that was tilled and land planed that was thicker and it regrew.

I had a surprise when I went back to side dress nitrogen. It had grown up right with the corn. I had to respray as usual to get a complete kill. The photo shows the corn suffering a little bit because the annual rye grass had pulled extra moisture away from the corn. It was dry at this point, later we received 1.7" of rain which really helped.

The timing for weed control was difficult this year due to late planting and wet conditions early. There were bigger weeds than normal at planting and emergence of others weren't the same as crop emergence.

Cereal Rye With Strip Tillage

2009-05-14T08:43:00.003-04:00

This past weekend I took a drive over to Union township to check out my fields there. I was surprised to see the stand and amount of growth that was there.
These pictures are of cereal rye seeded into harvested soybeans. The cereal rye was broadcast with pell lime. I used 185 lbs. per acre of pell lime and 40 lbs.per acre of cereal rye.
This was broadcast surface applied, than I made my strips. This result has been vary consistent in that I get nice cover with a bare strip to plant into.
This mixture was applied on 10-31-09. There was just a green fuzz of growth last fall and I didn't think any survived into spring. The pictures were taken on 5-9-09. This matches my experience with cereal rye in past years, it just seems to be more hardy and tolerant to later seeding dates.

There are still some thin spots here also, but still more cover than with the annual rye grass this year.

Spring Burndown Time

2009-05-05T09:55:00.007-04:00

It's May the 3rd and its been wet forever. The winter weather was not kind to the annual rye grass cover crop this year. Going into fall we did not get a lot of growth. Today as this picture was taken a root dig revealed visible roots down about 7 inches. This was not as deep as one would normally expect, but given the weather conditions last fall and this spring it is what it is.
Than in February the ground lacked snow cover and we got wind with 0 temps and it froze out most of the plants. This combination was also hard on the winter wheat on the high ground.
It is time to spray burn down on the annual rye grass. I waited for two reasons, one it was wet and two I wanted to let what rye grass that was there grow a little longer. It seemed to be struggling to grow this spring. In the picture where I have the rye grass with strip tillage it survived better where there was some protection either buildings or fence lines or woods. For the best spraying results use the full rate of glyphosate for the product you are using. Ammonium sulfate or citric acid also needs to be added to help correct the ph of the water. Do not add any atrazine product in this mix for the first spray. Try to spray from late morning to early afternoon with temps at least 60 degrees daytime and minimum 40 degrees at night. This helps the trans location process work quicker. This past winter I learned that air induction nozzles and low water volume (ie spray coupe and 9 gpa) don't work well either. There just is not enough of the leaf surfaces covered to get a good kill. A flat fan noozle with moderate preassure will give good results. I will start spraying on Monday May the 4th weather permitting.

In the other field that was tilled conventional and land planed to level some recent tilling, even less of the annual rye grass survived. This past winter erosion was quite severe in a lot of fields. This was due to a surface thaw and than recieving a large amount of rain. Any soil loosened from the frost was carried away where there was a concentrated flow of water. In the above picture at the other end of the field is a long slope feeding a valley and I had gullies as deep as it was chiseled. The grader blade and the Bobcat were busy moving a lot of dirt back into place. IT'S A MUST TO HAVE A GOOD COVER CROP GROWING AFTER EXTENSIVE TILLAGE AND LAND PLANING. I will still plant this field without doing extra tillage. Planting photo's will follow. It will dry up soon I hope.

Another practice in cover crops that's been around a long time but not used much because wheat is not used in the rotation as much any more. With nitrogen costs where they are I wanted to try and grow my own. I over seeded wheat with a mixture of Medium Red Clover and Alsike Clover.
I mixed it with the urea and spread it on with a fertilizer buggy. This was done about the end of March when field conditions were dry enough. I used 10 lbs. per acre of Medium Red and 2.5 lbs. per acre of Alsike Clover. This field will be planted to corn in 2010. I plan to do fall strip tillage this coming fall. The clovers won't be killed until the spring of 2010. I plan to adjust my nitrogen rates based on there growth and a soil nitrogen test. Stay with me on this one and we'll see how it works.

Later I will attempt to do a cost to benefit analysis. Margins have always been tight in farming and there has to be profit. Do cover crops add to the bottom line.

Current Season

2009-02-19T13:11:00.006-05:00

There are two fields for the 2009 crop I will feature. One was an old wheat stubble field that had manure hauled on during the summer. I disc chiseled this field due to some recent tiling. After tilling and land leveling this field I broadcast on 12 pounds of annual ryegrass with 150 pounds 21-0-0-24 on the 25th of September. I used a Phoenix rotary harrow to incorporate the annual ryegrass mixture. This field will be no-tilled come spring.

The other field was soybean stubble that received the same mixture of annual ryegrass and fertilizer on the 25th of September. I used the Phoenix rotary harrow to incorporate the annual ryegrass. I followed with my strip till operation. This year the seed had not germinated yet, and I didn’t know if I would get a bare strip. As you can see in the pictures the strip is clean.

Unfortunately there wasn’t much rain this fall and November was pretty cool. Consequently there wasn’t a lot of growth to the annual ryegrass this fall. We’ll have to see whether it over winters.

When spreading the annual ryegrass with a spinner spreader your passes should be on 40’ and then double back and split the middles. The annual ryegrass is so light it doesn’t throw farther than 20’. Any granular carrier can be used. I use ammonium sulfate fertilizer to get the sulfur.
I’ve used pell lime and potash also.

A drill with a grass seeder attachment can also be used to plant the seed directly into the soil. You will get a quicker stand establishment, but it comes at a higher machinery and labor cost.

Aerial seeding is an option prior to harvest. I will show examples of this coming into next fall. It also can be pretty expensive.

My seeding rates are a little less than is usually recommended but that’s where I’ve found my comfort zone. The experts recommend about 20 pounds per acre of annual ryegrass.

YOU HAVE TO EXPERIENCE THE RESULTS

Trying Annual Ryegrass

2009-02-10T09:47:00.000-05:00

The fall of 2005 was my first try with annual ryegrass. I broadcast about 22 pounds of Saddle Pro brand with 150 pounds of 21-0-0-24 fertilizer. This was spread after soybean harvest on 9-26-2005. I use a Phoenix rotary harrow to slightly incorporate the seed. It received rain that same night after seeding. That fall it was warm and I got nice growth. In fact it never went dormant that winter. In mid January a root dig revealed that the roots were down to a depth of 12 inches.

First try at Annual Rye-grass. Seeded fall 2005 at 20 lbs.

As I spread liquid hog manure on it in December and again in February the annual ryegrass greened up noticeably each time.

The fall of 2006 was colder and wet. I seeded about 15 pounds of annual ryegrass with fertilizer again. It was later though (10-05-2006). It sprouted and got a fine hair like shoot, but it froze out this winter and none survived.

In the summer of 2007, I seeded the annual ryegrass after wheat harvest on 8-31-2007. This was done after hauling manure from barns and pits. This year the rate was 12 pounds per acre and again with 21-0-0-24 fertilizer. There was nice growth (6 inches) going into fall. That winter was open and cold and the annual ryegrass froze out. Vary little survived by spring. Due to earlier seeding, and growth well into December the rooting depth was still there.

Annual Rye-grass seeded after wheat stubble, September 2007.

I had tried strip tillage back about 1997 and never did get to plant a crop of corn on them. I tried it in wheat stubble without killing volunteer wheat and weeds in the fall. By spring the strips were grown over with volunteer wheat and were impossible to follow, especially without any type of guidance.

Starting in the fall of 2007 I made strips in bean ground that was planted to corn in 2008. This was done with a rented tractor and Remlinger 6 row strip till tool bar. The tractor also had RTK and auto steer guidance. This was necessary as I plant with a 12 row planter and the strips had to be accurate enough to match.

Spring Planting, 2008

I also used cereal rye as a cover crop that fall on one field that I made the strips in. Cereal rye is a lot tougher and can be seeded later and still grow late into the fall. I’ve never seen it freeze out over the winter. A broadcast seeding with fertilizer is all that is needed to establish a stand. As there was about two weeks between the seeding date and the day I made the strips, the cereal rye was already emerging. The strip till operation took everything out of the row and left the middles with a live cover. The next spring I had a nice clean dry spot to plant into. This was just one years experience but I liked what I saw and did try it again for the fall of 2008. This time I used annual ryegrass.

Cereal Rye with Strips

Cereal Rye with Strips, sprayed 4-23

After May 1st Planting, 2008

History

2009-02-10T09:34:00.000-05:00

Here’s a little history.

On and off since the late 1980’s I’ve been using cereal rye, wheat, and oats for cover crops. Some when I still used conventional tillage. I would plant cereal rye after wheat harvest into the field that would be receiving manure until the next spring. Then it was tilled under and planted to corn. After purchasing my first no-till drill a (JD750) I planted different cover crops after corn stalks that were going to soybeans the next spring. This worked well as soybeans are more forgiving than corn.

As I switched to more no-till corn I started planting directly into standing cereal rye cover. Sometimes it was too thick and caused problems with seed placement. One time it got too big (taller than the tractor) due to a wet spring. This was actually easier to plant into because the straw had a stem to it and kinked over as you ran the planter over it. I planted by the first week of June.

The worst failure I had was corn no-tilled into an old alfalfa stand that had grown to about a foot tall. It also had some orchard grass. The top soil moisture was depleted and it didn’t rain for two weeks after planting. In the mean time mice were having a treat of corn kernels.

The reason my first cover crops were so big was that I sprayed my burn down with the planter as I planted the crop. This sometimes wasn’t the right thing to do. I have since purchased a Spra-Coupe to do separate spraying.

Present day I’ve moved away from no-till corn to strip till. I don’t know if this was a move backwards yet. Time will tell.

It’s still possible to do strips and have a cover crop established. I’ve been working more with annual ryegrass and some cereal rye the last couple of years.

Introduction

2009-02-10T09:19:00.000-05:00

This is posted by Gene Witte. I’m currently serving on the SWCD board. Now that we have a web site I wanted to use it as a tool to show my year long experience with annual ryegrass cover, and the tools and methods used to manage it.

I will try to do monthly updates during the season as points of interest occur.

MOTIVATION!

A person has to have a desire or need to try something different. A person also has to follow through with enough effort to make it work correctly.

Mine came from an experience of plowing up a grass pasture that was no longer needed. The ground was so mellow, even the clay knobs fell right apart. This changed after three years of doing conventional tillage. The clay knobs became harder, gullies started to form due to increased water runoff.

I’ve noticed the same thing happen when I bulldozed out a fence row to make two small fields one big one. For the first three years the crops over the fence row were noticeably bigger as compared to the rest of the field.

Thus my term FENCE ROW DIRT is what I want to strive for over all my acreage. This is why I have such an interest in cover crops.

Cover crops and limited tillage will help us as farmers to get closer to FENCE ROW DIRT.

Cover crops also protect the soil surface from direct sunlight and the impact of rain. This increases the time earthworms and other soil organisms have to do there job of breaking down crop residue.

With increased organic matter there is more water holding capacity. A higher level of stored carbon is also maintained. This than can lead to a reduced need for commercial fertilizer. Who wouldn’t appreciate that today?

From an erosion standpoint you get more infiltration and less runoff.